Musings on Fantasy

Posted by: Melinda

Tagged in: writing

After writing until I was cross-eyed last night I took a break to play my favorite obsession -- Dragon Age.  As it was booting up there was a little tag about how the last Darkspawn blight had occurred 400 years before with the implication being that the Grey Wardens had fought off that blight with similar weaponry (and a few griffons).

Which made me wonder -- if it had been 400 years why weren't we fighting the Darkspawn with at least flintlocks?  Which led to the crashing realization that most fantasy never takes into account progress.

In order to give a sense of history and depth to a book and the world that's been created authors frequently refer to events in history from hundreds of years before.  People carry swords made for kings long dead, etc. etc.

But it's not credible.  Somewhere in those intervening hundreds of years there's going to be a di Vinci, a Kepler, a Gallileo, a Newton.  Somebody is going to invent gunpowder.  Question the origins of disease, contemplate the internal combustion engine.

Or can you argue that the presence of magic is what prevents the development of the scientific method, and stifles scientific research?

Then I realized this logical disconnect was why I prefer science fiction to fantasy, and why I don't think I'd be very good at writing a Big Fat Fantasy Novel.

Just some random thoughts for a Sunday morning, and now it's back to the script.  Four or five pages to go!  I can do this.

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Exactly right
written by Terry E, August 08, 2010
Tolkien was guilty of this -- thousands of years of history are alluded to, but no technical advances are mentioned save sharper swords -- but then he was protesting industrialization anyway (see Scouring of the Shire). But when you do bring, say, steam power into a fantasy where before all they had were horses and stuff, does that move it into SF? Maybe no one invents things in fantasy because fantasy tropes prevent such. It would be nice to have explanations, though.

Also, commenting late on "Inception," which I saw only last night. I enjoyed it more than you did, but yeah, there were big problems (guns -- always guns in a dreamworld; cf "The Matrix"). The dreams were bland in my opinion (Ariadine's (sp?) first experiments excepted -- why wasn't there more of that?). And the reason they were doing this seemed a bit weak. They needed a stronger "if we don't do this, all hell will break loose" explanation. And the last shot -- there was no reason, no reason at all, to cut it off the way they did. Who do they think they are, the Sopranos? (Maybe that's just me, wanting a definitive plot point.)
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written by William H Stoddard, August 09, 2010
Rapid technological change appears to be a fairly recent historical development; I'd probably tie it to the Industrial Revolution. Time between innovations used to be a lot longer, and not all innovations were followed up; look at China under the Ming for some examples. I'm not sure how much this has to do with science; the common pattern used to be that a new technology was developed empirically and then the scientific theory to explain it was worked out, as when Sadi Carnot's analysis of heat engines gave rise to thermodynamics. The first scientific theory I know of that was worked out before the technology that went with it was Maxwell's electromagnetic equations, which led to Hertz's spark gap transmitter, which led to radio.

And a lot of fantasy is set in societies that have neither industrial technology nor the Royal Society. See Neal Stephenson's The Baroque Cycle for a good portrayal of the phase shift from agrarian/religious to industrial/scientific.
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written by Ty, August 09, 2010
Indeed. The sword, spear, and bow were the supreme battlefield implements for thousands of years before the gun showed up. Most of the big tech changes during that period were in metallurgy. Swords were made of progressively more advanced materials and forging techniques, but the form and function remained pretty much exactly the same.
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written by Melindas, August 09, 2010
Thanks, gents, this has been a really interesting exchange. Yeah, there were advances -- bronze to iron, etc. I'm also wondering if technological advance is also dependent upon having a fairly stable food supply? When people don't have to grub in the dirt all the time there's more time for other pursuits.

I was also thinking about Rome where they had invented a simple irrigation pump, had glass windows, and not tiny mullions either, real windows, concrete and construction techniques that were impressive for the time, literacy was fairly wide spread, etc.

Wonder what would have happened if we'd avoided Christianity and the Dark Ages?
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written by Ty, August 09, 2010
Well, the plague would still have messed things up pretty good, but we might have had the library at Alexandria to pull us back up faster.

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